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Churches ban child yoga classes
Last Updated: 1:57am BST 01/09/2007
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Have your say: Is yoga un-Christian?
A yoga group for toddlers has been banned from two church halls by ministers who branded it a "sham" and "un-Christian".
Louise Woodcock, 41, the group's teacher, was told that the ancient Hindu and Buddhist meditation method "impinges" on the spiritual agenda of the churches.
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Yesterday, Miss Woodcock, who has been turned away from Silver Street Baptist Church and St James's Church of England church in Taunton, Somerset, said the claims were "ridiculous" because her classes simply involve music and movement.
"I couldn't believe it when they suddenly said I couldn't have the hall any more because yoga is against their Christian ethos," she said. "It's crazy because we're talking about kids pretending to be animals and doing exercise routines to rhymes - it's really sweet.
"There is nothing that could damage their minds in any shape or form. The Church have completely misunderstood it and I think they are being narrow-minded."
Yoga originates from Hindu meditation techniques to achieve control of the body and mind, but in modern times it is used as a type of exercise.
Miss Woodcock, who has been teaching for 20 years, added: "I explained to the Church that my yoga is a completely non-religious activity. There is no dogma involved."
She was originally given permission to use the Baptist Church hall for a children's activity group, but the minister, the Rev Simon Farrar, withdrew his consent after discovering it was for yoga. Days later St James's barred her for the same reason. Rev Farrar yesterday defended his decision. "We are a Christian organisation and when we let rooms to people we want them to understand that they must be fully in line with our Christian ethos.
"Clearly yoga impinges on the spiritual life of people in a way which we as Christians don't believe is the same as our ethos. If it was just a group of children singing nursery rhymes, there wouldn't be a problem. But, she's called it yoga and therefore there is a dividing line we're not prepared to cross."
Rev Tim Jones, the vicar of St James's, said: "Any alternative philosophies or beliefs are offering a sham - and at St James's church we want people to have the real thing.
"Yoga has its roots in Hinduism, and attempts to use exercises and relaxation techniques to put a person into a calm frame of mind - in touch with some kind of impersonal spiritual reality.
"The philosophy of yoga cannot be separated from the practice of it, and any teacher of yoga (even to toddlers) must subscribe to the philosophy.
"As Christians we believe that this philosophy is false and not something we wish to encourage. Yoga is encouraging people to think that there is a way to wholeness of body and mind through human techniques - whereas the only true way to wholeness is by faith in God through Jesus Christ."
Miss Woodcock has moved her classes to a nearby village hall.
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Comments
This story demonstrates clearly why most of us have no time for religion. It never ceases to amaze me that religious people are so intolerant; I'm sure I read somewhere that you are supposed to love one another .... or does that mean just people who believe in your particular fairy tale?Posted by Chris R on September 1, 2007 2:54 PMReport this comment
It seems that all religions have their tunnel vision fundalmentalists. These Taunton clerics have already been referred to the work of Father Bede Griffiths. They might also read that most famous Christian work "The Cloud of Unknowing" and follow that up with some of the writings of Saint Theresa of Avila. Of course, none of these authors were Baptist or C of E.Posted by Martyn on September 1, 2007 11:41 AMReport this comment
This is an excellent decision - the reasons that the churches have given are clear and true.Posted by R Lock on September 1, 2007 11:35 AMReport this comment
Yoga is a Hindu practice; there is no doubt about it. People who try to say otherwise are only trying to appear PC or more acceptable to non- Hindus. The core philosophy of yoga is Hindu philosophy and its philosophy cannot be separated from its practice. Therefore, Priests banning it from churches are justified in principle. Christianity doesn’t endorse spiritual philosophy of Hinduism and Yoga so why should they allow it in their churches? Hinduism has never tried to force its way into any person or society; people follow it by their own choice and discovery of its amazing spiritual and enlightening knowledge. Yogis should find some other place and keep doing what they do in true non-conflicting and loving spirit of Hinduism. Posted by Shiv Som on September 1, 2007 11:08 AMReport this comment
Yoga is based on Hindu culture. That aspect of Yoga which is akin to exercises is called Hatha Yoga. The question is, can this be taught divorced from its background? That is, can Hatha Yoga be taught purely as an exercise form without any reference to Hinduism? Certainly, when we discard even the names of the various postures which are in Sanskrit. Then Hatha Yoga would be as non-Hindu as exercises for, say, a ballet dancer. It is understandable that Churches are afraid that non Christian influences would dilute the Christian atmosphere. Instead of wholesale rejection of Yoga, they would have been wiser if they pondered over ways of 'Christianizing' yoga, at least those sought to be taught in Churches. This way they can benefit from yoga while ensuring they are not culturally invaded. Incidentally, this syncretism is the secret of Hinduism’s marathon survival. Unless Christianity pick’s up this clue, it might stagnate in dogmatism. Posted by K.Venugopal on September 1, 2007 9:41 AMReport this comment
Teachers of Yoga always begin by teaching "harmless" physical exercises. These lead imperceptibly to the subsequent acceptance of the underlying philosophy, which is fundamentally opposed to the idea of Jesus Christ being "the only begotten Son of God". "Yoga" and "Jesus Christ, Son of God, Saviour" are mutually exclusive. Thanks are due to the Ministers concerned for their prompt action. Other churches please copy ! Posted by Dr Roger Clark on September 1, 2007 8:09 AMReport this comment
A Christian is someone who not only believes in God but they make Jesus Christ their LORD and Savior. There is a big difference. We must stand up for anything that could lead another down a path of destruction and that is exactly where Yoga could lead someone. What if those little children grow up thinking Yoga is harmless and than they happen to go to a Yoga class where the teacher does tell them to connect with a god, not the true God? That is why it is a fine line. Satan comes as an angel of light. He loves to have us think something is harmless and then he goes in for the kill. He seeks to destroy. So I applaud the churches for taking this stand! May God get all the glory.Praise His name oh my soul!Posted by lovejesus on September 1, 2007 6:19 AMReport this comment
Having looked at all the other post I would like to add that loving one's neighbour involves pointing out where a mistake or worse is being made. Many seem to think that Hinduism is older than christianity yet the Bible says that In the beginning God created and that In the beginning was the Word and the Word was made flesh and came to dwell among us, that is Jesus was is and always will be the first and the last.To base one's life on anything else is false unless this truth is itself false. The evidence of Jesus divinity and the greatness of His life and teachings is more than sufficient to suggest that nothing and no-one else comes close to being worthy of human worship. Follow Jesus and Glory awaits. May the Holy Spirit lead us all into the truth and away from ancient and modern philosophies that have the appearance of wisdom but lead us ultimately away from eternity and the Glory of the knowledge of God. Posted by Robin on September 1, 2007 2:03 AMReport this comment
Good for the ministers who have explained why following Jesus is the most important reason for not allowing children to be led into a false faith in a christian building. What did the yoga teacher expect? If she wants to practise hinduistic singing and exercises she is free to do so but why inflict it on children and expect another faith to provide the premises? Satan masquerades as an angel of light and this lady needs to understand that her seemingly innocent activity is leading others away from the truth revealed by God's only begotten son Jesus Christ.Posted by Robin Ware on September 1, 2007 1:39 AMReport this comment
As a Christian I cansider the ban arrogant, outrageous and petty minded. Grow up.Posted by g guard on August 31, 2007 11:17 PMReport this comment
As a Canadian I wonder why people are so upset about children using a church hall for exercise .As I read the ' Telegraph ' each day I clearly see that everyone in England needs to worry more about youth violence , alcohol / drug abuse , spousal abuse and a lack of meaningful education in primary schools .When I read the e-mails already posted the poor educational standards are glaringly apparent. G.L.Bell AlbertaPosted by Gillian Bell on August 31, 2007 10:50 PMReport this comment
A subtle mind would note the common theme running through many posts here. Choose Jesus over Yoga (or words to that effect)... reflecting the state of mind "either you are with us or against us". The fundamental difference between monolithic religions (mutually exclusive paths to God) and Hinduisam (several paths) could not be more stark. It requires to do some yoga to realise that Jesus and Yoga can co-exist...possibly he practiced it since yoga pre-dated him by a pole.Posted by Yashkul on August 31, 2007 10:41 PMReport this comment
In a competing world of religions, CEO of the church did the right thing to keep off the competitor by a pole. People can practise lower form of yoga (physical exercises) but the higher spiritual forms of yoga would take it closer to Hinduism... That is the fear of the CEO. Yoga has existed since time...physically and spritually beneficial as it is. His fear is justified. If investors lose trust in a CEO, they will go to the other corporate. It's upto people to decide for their profit (or loss).Posted by Yashkul on August 31, 2007 10:16 PMReport this comment
2 Corinthians 6:14 [ Do Not Be Yoked With Unbelievers ] "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?" As anyone can see from this verse the Christian belief of being separate from the world (darkness) is a requirement! Otherwise, you are playing a game with the devil. Guess who will win when you play by his rules? Posted by Barry on August 31, 2007 9:54 PMReport this comment
To learn more about Yoga Visit this site: Hindu Wisdom link Posted by Sue on August 31, 2007 9:54 PMReport this comment
Relax people, my 2 year old daughter is one of those that attend Louises classes. TWO year old... She is not seeking enlightenment through yoga, she is enjoying the fact that her mum takes her somewhere she can play with other children, sing and dance and pretend to be a mountain! This does not need to be an argument between religions, its only children, dancing and having fun.Posted by Mark Bradshaw on August 31, 2007 8:56 PMReport this comment
I suggest that Tim Jones and Simon Farrar might read River of Compassion by Bede Griffiths. I have been a yoga teacher for 20 years and am a regular C of E churchgoer. My understanding of Christian spirituality has been deeply enriched by studying yoga. Posted by Jenny Golland on August 31, 2007 8:38 PMReport this comment
Yoga means union. Union of the individual self with God. It is incorrect to say Yoga came from Hinduism, it is the other way around. Hinduism came from Yoga as did Chritianity. Which Christian would deny Lord Jesus is not one with God? Therefore Lord Jesus is Yoga. Doing postures is what most people think is Yoga but that is like saying doing the sign of the cross is Christianity - there is a whole lot more to it than that. Yoga practices include praying, meditating, following ethical principles, working for others, positive thinking, living in harmony with oneself and the environment. Should Christians stop doing these too? One can practice all of these in the name of that One your heart adores. Whether that is Lord Jesus, Lord Krishna, or Lord Buddha. Posted by Mark Johnson on August 31, 2007 8:21 PMReport this comment
Yoga unchristian beacause of its origins? Then what about drama, a direct descendent of the religious rites of the ancient greeks? Are christians barred from watching nativity plays? As someone who regularly practises yoga (and an atheist, as it happens) I can assure you that it is no more unchristian than playing tennis or drinking a cup of tea. Its also extremely good for you - regardless of what you believe. Posted by Andrew Mortimer on August 31, 2007 7:43 PMReport this comment
Some years ago I managed the Church Hall of a North London C-of-E Church of which I was churchwarden. The question of eastern religious and martial-arts groups did indeed crop up - and with good reason - since these groups were the majority of those who wished to hire our hall. Frankly I had no qualms about letting our hall to such people, nor did most of our parishioners. We regarded the hall as a 'secular trading arm' and, provided nothing illegal or irinsically 'anti'-Christian took place, we saw no problem. Indeed we once had a moslem post-baptism party for our community policeman's family. We believe that the multiculturalist approach that we took was a major factor in our church gaining a sizeable repair grant from the Heritage Fund.Posted by Stuart Hobday on August 31, 2007 7:34 PMReport this comment
It seems that whatever path Christians choose is wrong. If they go along with other religions, show tolerance, whatever that is. They are declared weak and sneered at particularily in the media. if they take a stand against what is after all a practice rooted in Hinduism, they are viewed as bigots. Well done RevPosted by Cynthia Sheward on August 31, 2007 7:31 PMReport this comment
I would like to know what the 'church' is afraid of. If more people were confident in their own spirituality through practices such as the teachings of yoga, society would be a happier and healthier place. I guess my yoga class should keep an eye out for crusading Christians, although I think we have nothing to worry about as they will probably be too busy fighting each other.Posted by James Fisher on August 31, 2007 7:07 PMReport this comment
Gerard - surely you havent actually taken Dawkin's book seriously? Dont you realise it simply repeats what poor old Jacque Monod was saying yonks ago? tired old stuff which wasnt remotely rational then and isnt now. In my view it is irrational to believe that there is no self/soul but rather that 'we', our thoughts, dreams & feelings are the random product of random electro-chemical interreactions caused by random external stimuli.Posted by Simon Hocking on August 31, 2007 7:03 PMReport this comment
Absolutely right Rev Jones, and all power to you. Theologically correct, 100% right. Yoga is not Christianity, and I admire your strength of character and your clear and precise denunciation of un-Christian practices. Ignore the doubters - I too believe it's your perogative and right to support the Christian faith and I too applaude the chance to say so in the (essentially anti-God) press. Tolerance? A new-age left-wing term.It means let me sin as much as I choose. Stay with the Truth, Tim. Well done. Posted by Murray K Steward on August 31, 2007 6:55 PMReport this comment
Religion of whatever shade is irrational, has no basis in objective reality and cannot be tested. Christian objection to yoga is just one superstition versus another. However, whomsoever owns the building concerned should have every right to determine its use, whether or not their reasons for doing so stand up to rational analysis.Posted by Gerard Carroll on August 31, 2007 6:02 PMReport this comment
I suppose tolerance means we should accept murder of the soul. Many murderers in prison would call us intolerant.Thankfully many Christians are intolerant of both. Posted by Karen on August 31, 2007 5:26 PMReport this comment
Congratulations to Rev Tim Jones, the vicar who said: "Any alternative philosophies or beliefs are offering a sham - and at St James's church we want people to have the real thing. Yoga has its roots in Hinduism, and attempts to use exercises and relaxation techniques to put a person into a calm frame of mind - in touch with some kind of impersonal spiritual reality. The philosophy of yoga cannot be separated from the practice of it, and any teacher of yoga (even to toddlers) must subscribe to the philosophy.” There seems to be an appalling ignorance regarding Yoga which is a Hindu exercising practice to allow the devotee to believe in many gods. One if its aims is to achieve peaceful meditation without recourse to our Creator God and to contact the dormant spirit snake said to reside at the base of all our spines and bring it alive. I have seen a personal demonstration of this Kundalini spirit snake semi materialised which at the time petrified me as I knew I was in danger of losing my eternal soul. Some 40 years ago I was in a branch of the Great White Brotherhood which claims to heal the sick by spiritual healing. I had twice sought this healing for my dying father after doctors had given up on him when after removing one lung he had two more growing at the top and bottom of his remaining lung. Following two apparently miraculous GWB spirit healings he lived for another 7 years. I became a trainee healer and when I was invited to a weeks retreat at the GWB headquarters for a test for Inner Brotherhood I thought I had realised my dream of serving God by healing the sick. In a private interview with the Founder the sweet kindly old lady became angry when I said we could help the Christian Church. “They will use their power and destroy us she cried.” We were in a brightly lit room. She was sat back relaxed on a couch whilst I was seated on a wooden chair opposite her. Whilst I was trying to puzzle out what ‘power’ the Christian Church had, I found that her head and shoulders had disappeared into grey mist and projecting from it was a humanised head with glowing eyes of hatred at the end of a elongated neck or snake’s body of the same grey mist. The fangs of this creature were aimed at my forehead. I was paralysed with fear as my soul told me that this was personified evil. I desperation I mentally cried out to the God I had forsaken when CoE bishops and vicars started to broadcast their disbelief in what they taught to others. Blessed am I that God and/or His Angels came and drove the evil one back inside the mediums body. Eventually the mist faded and her normal self re-appeared. I don’t know how I controlled myself as I knew that she must not know what I had seen. I spent a sleepless night wondering how I could last out the week. How could such lovely souls freely dispensing their healing gifts be of the Devil? Were the founders deceived or did they know? They had sought power to heal but was this God’s revenge for seeking a gift that was only His to give? At the time I knew nothing about Yoga and had never heard of the spirit snake but amazingly proof of my experience came with the first lesson on the morning following. We were taught (I closed my mind to it) how by deep meditation and chanting the dormant Kundalini snake could be brought alive and with training it would crawl up the spine to the head. There it would develop wings to enable the soul to fly to Heaven. So we were taught. But I had seen how it would, when the conditions were right, semi-materialise itself and strike out of the human body to damn a soul for eternity before sinking back into its lair. The Rev Simon Farrar & Rev Tim Jones may have started a growing movement of removing from Christian churches what is not of God. Yoga is also available on the NHS so perhaps it’s dangers could be removed from there also? My full story is available at: link Keith Posted by Keith Shelton on August 31, 2007 3:45 PMReport this comment
To Mrs Snowden, shut up, you fool. You strike me as too keen to advocate killing in the name, and the pernicious ignorance surrounding sex and its education in this country, not to mention the world. Shame on you.Posted by Bovine Response on August 31, 2007 3:41 PMReport this comment
Praise God! 2 churches that have a knowledge of right and wrong in the eyes of Jesus. Stand Up! Stand Up! for Jesus, Christians! There are too many deceptions in health and fitness these days and so it would be wise to check out the origin of something before you subject your spirit to it. We are to be salt and light to the world and bring into the light that which is hidden in darkness.Posted by Mrs Snowden on August 31, 2007 3:29 PMReport this comment
I am concerned that there are so many Christians agreeing with this stance. I am proud of Britains' largely secular and irreligious culture and do NOT see how Christians can witter on about how tolerant and peace-loving they are and then get their knickers in a twist over a bit of yoga. Is there faith so shaky that it needs propping up like this? I think so...Posted by Cheryl, Swindon on August 31, 2007 2:27 PMReport this comment
Excellent post Neil Turner!! 'Tolerance' today is the catch phrase people like to use to try and make the Church submit to what the world/satan wants. As you stated, we don't tolerate sin or error, we are merely commanded by the Lord to challenge people and point out the error of their ways (and will be likely persecuted for it!).Posted by Chris Zimmerman on August 31, 2007 2:11 PMReport this comment
Full marks to Revd's Farrer and Jones for exactly the reasons reported. It's time we reminded society that religious plurality is not helpful to anyone. Yes Christians rightly and properly seek tolerance but not to condone erroneous teaching. Posted by Revd Peter Burns on August 31, 2007 1:58 PMReport this comment
I can see no good reason why a priest should not be able to rent his church hall to whomsoever he chooses. The fact that they look absolutely daft is neither here nor there. I bet they open their church halls for the entirely secular and meaningless activity known as voting though.Posted by A. G. Nostic on August 31, 2007 1:42 PMReport this comment
I believe this to be a spiritually wise decision. Offering a fine branch of yoga can lead to a deeper interest in this practise. There is much more to this yoga practise than meets the eye. It says in the Bible a little yeast will work its way through the whole dough. Sadly in our world in many different ways this has happened and we can see the result. ( signs of the times ) Friends we have a Creator who loves us and revealed Himself through the person of Jesus Christ. Its time for change, don't choose yoga, choose Jesus.Posted by Kevin on August 31, 2007 12:53 PMReport this comment
Yes it is unchristian. People who scoff and say 'oh it's fine and don't be so fuddy duddy' are ignorant of where yoga comes from, and, ultimately, where it aims to lead people to. If it's a 'music and movement' class that is wanted, simply have it. Do not, however, stage yoga in a Christian church - no matter how early stage or seemingly innocent. Well done & fair play to the Taunton ministers!Posted by Adrian Russell on August 31, 2007 12:40 PMReport this comment
Yoga, as with many Eastern and alternative therapies and practices, cultivates the notion that their is a latent energy/source within the 'self' which can energise and potentially liberate us. Essentially, healing, release and meaning are to be discovered through practices which focus on nurturing the subjective life. Christianity, on the other hand, is fundamentally concerned with looking outside the 'self' for meaning and liberation - to Jesus. The Christian looks outwards (to God), the person involved in 'self-spirituality' looks inwards (to self). They are therefore diametrically opposed. Also, the meaning of the word 'yoga' is union. Crudely put, this union is the 'union with all' that monistic religions see as possible - the dissolution of the distinction between 'self' and 'other' - "'Thou' art 'thou'". Christianity is monotheistic, there is to always be the distinction between God and humans. God is holy and humans are by nature sinful. Only in Christ can this chasm be traversed and even then the distinction remains for humans are created and are of a different matter to the divine. Whether or not a bunch of toddlers and children are buying into yoga or not is a different matter - I suspect not. Nevertheless, the lady is wrong to say that the Church leaders are narrowminded for she is the one who has little understanding of the roots of her subject and its innate theological and practical disparities with the Christian faith. Posted by Giles Beck on August 31, 2007 12:27 PMReport this comment
yes! the churches are quite right to say that. i dare say someone will say how 'narrow minded' but Telegraph is to be congratulated on reporting the minsiters objections clearly.Posted by neila on August 31, 2007 12:23 PMReport this comment
Eh...What the hecks. Hinduism is being called false by some here but yet it is the oldest known existing religion...older that Judaism by about 500 years...and that was where christians borrowed their beliefs and their Christ. To put it into perspective Christianity is 2000 years old while Hinduism at its youngest is 5500 years and its oldest greater that 7000 years old. An athiest Posted by Marc Charest on August 31, 2007 12:20 PMReport this comment
I am a fitness instructor and a Christian. Yoga may have it's roots in paganism but today it's only exercise for stress relief. It basically boils down to one word: WORSHIP! We are NOT worshipping anything. Pretending to be animals is not worshipping them. True Christianity does NOT force. You can also use Yoga to worship God and Jesus Christ. Posted by Delilah on August 31, 2007 12:05 PMReport this comment
Xianity a tolerant religion?! (John, 0923 hrs.) Obviously John has missed the excesses of Xianity over the past one and a half millennia, which make fanatical Islam look like a kindergarten tantrum. Heck, if this had happened a century or two ago, Ms woodcock would've been burned at stake!Posted by Michael Steiner on August 31, 2007 12:01 PMReport this comment
If Ms Woodcock paid the church good money to hire the hall upfront, then I would demand a refund if I was her. This just goes to show that most of the major faiths are intolerant of other people’s beliefs (or lack of). But I'm glad that Ms Woodcock has been able to find alternative accommodation. Posted by Richard Bush on August 31, 2007 11:43 AMReport this comment
Its not the point of this artcile of course but, to respond to Mr Jarmel, I am not certain any dictionary is a very helpful arbiter of what constitues a religion/belief system. In any event atheism is the strong and indeed blind faith that there is no God, despite the fact that no human can of course prove this. In this sense, atheism involves as least as much faith as any other world-view and so the term 'religion' appears to be equally applicable to that belief.Posted by Simon Hocking on August 31, 2007 11:41 AMReport this comment
Well for starters, Yoga is not in christianity. Therefore the idea that it is 'unchristian' because it goes against (the myth of) christianity is accepted. Miss Woodcock should not be upset by the fundie-mentality esp when she is going to a church with something that the church cannot accept based on THEIR beliefs. She ought to have known that yoga wouldn't be accepted! She is better off at the village hall where her taxes have helped pay for. Likewise, for the churches, when they are afraid that their freedom of speech is being trifled with, obviously they will reject anything that doesn't conform to their ideal, without breaking the law on discrimination. So, as an atheist or anyone who pays their taxes (religion is exempt btw), better off using public halls than private or religious halls!Posted by Atheist joe on August 31, 2007 11:26 AMReport this comment
The idea of teaching children to empty their monds and pretend to be animals is certainly a form of false religion. Christianity does not force itself on other religions but they have no place in any church. Please read Jesus' words Matthew 12:43-45Posted by john cochrane on August 31, 2007 11:08 AMReport this comment
It would appear that the Taliban are alive and well and living in Taunton. How far is the distance from banning Yoga to burning books or dunking witches? You may feel this is an exaggeration, especially in a country that a BBC survey found to be one of the most irreligious countries in the world(thank goodness). However, as Sam Harris has pointed out in 'The End of Faith' it's the mild mannered vicars, with their irrational beliefs, that you have to watch out for. Seems to me they could do with a few yoga lessons themselves, along with some of the previous correspondents. It might help to open their small minds. Posted by Philip Palmer on August 31, 2007 11:03 AMReport this comment
She's calling it yoga, and Yoga has a spritual dimension that is probably not compatible with Christianity. It maybe, in fact, that it isn't truly yoga that this woman is doing, but the ministers in question have only got her word to go on, and so they should ban it.Posted by Greg Lorriman on August 31, 2007 11:00 AMReport this comment
If grown men, especially vicars, are stopping children having a little exercise in this day of "couch potatoes", is it not time for religion to be abolished?Posted by Kathleen Clark on August 31, 2007 10:59 AMReport this comment
As a practicing Christan I am appalled at Ms. Woodcock's treatment by Reverend Jones. His extremely narrow interpretation of theology makes us all a laughing stock. God help the people of Taunton if this is the dogma they have to contend with.Posted by Steph Falkingham-Blackwell on August 31, 2007 10:58 AMReport this comment
I used to be a Kung Fu instructor, I ran my own school for 2 years before I got saved. God showed me that ANY involvement in these kinds of things is simply opening the doorway of my heart to things which it should be closed to. This Church is absolutely right in its stance and should be applauded for doing so, that yoga instructor doesnt know what she is talking about if she says its "non-religious", the act of imitating animals & their movements for this purpose is in itself religious and an act of worship. To the people that think this is unbecoming of Christians they need to catch a wake up call, Christians give their lives to God and WILL NOT TOLERATE THIS. Romans 6:1-2 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?" Your Faithfully, JohnVZPosted by JohnVZ on August 31, 2007 10:30 AMReport this comment
From what the trainer is describing, it's not yoga. True yoga would be against the churches ethos - it would be like going into a Hindu temple and singing Christian hymns. What she's doing is, as she says, "music and movement" - call it what it really is instead of trying to tap into the "fashionable" new-age/eastern religion movement and there wouldn't be a problem.Posted by Sparkey on August 31, 2007 10:27 AMReport this comment
I believe that yoga is basically unchristian, as its origins are in Hinduism. you cannot be true to yoga and separate the physical side of it from the quasi-spiritual which is the harmful element. Physical exercises are of course beneficial, but to think that ultimate wholeness and inner harmony can be achieved by them is based on a falsehood. True wholeness is found in Jesus alone.Posted by Philip Lawson Johnston on August 31, 2007 10:01 AMReport this comment
Those who would describe atheism as a religion should perhaps consult a dictionary. A religion requires belief in a supernatural creator and, almost always, some form of worship of said being. It aims to tell us something about the creation of the universe. It is not simply a strongly held belief. In any case, Atheism is not a belief system and certainly doesn't aim to tell us about the creation of the universe. It is the absence of belief and simply says that there is no evidence to suggest that the universe was created by a supernatural being with magical powers. Any true atheist - myself included - would happily change their minds about the existence of a supernatural creator with magical powers the very second that any evidence were provided to prove the existence of such a creature. Given the linguistic difficulties of theists, perhaps reasonable people (that is, people whose beliefs about the world are governed by reason rather than faith) should take the advice of philosopher AC Grayling who argues that the term atheism should be abandoned because it gives too much ground to the idea of a god in the first place. Posted by Jake Jarmel on August 31, 2007 10:00 AMReport this comment
Churches always claim their halls are there for the good of the community when they're seeking public funding, but bar there use by anyone of whom they disapprove. They can't have it both ways. Posted by Chris Newell on August 31, 2007 9:42 AMReport this comment
Yoga is about movement and doesn't actually require anyone to subscribe to any particular philosophy in order to practice it: you just have to relax and move limbs. Hinduism DOES teach tolerance as in their view there are many paths to god, with none being better than the other - tolerance apparently something which the Christians in Taunton appear to lack.Posted by Paul on August 31, 2007 9:35 AMReport this comment
"All religion is a sham...and what happened to tolerance?" - what a classic quote! - presumably Mr Clark includes in his no doubt deeply considered outburst, the religion of atheism. I cant see any problem with what the churches are doing. It is entirely their prerogative to decline any activity which they feel does not accord with their beliefs. Yoga has its roots in Eastern mysticism that is directly opposed to Christian faith. With this in mind, the decision is entirely logical.Posted by Simon Hocking on August 31, 2007 9:30 AMReport this comment
Aaaaaargh. I just get so angry when I read this sort of thing. I thought christianity was one of the more tolerant religions. Obviously not. Religion causes so many divisions and conflicts in this world and yet they all seem to preach "love thy neighbour" unless of course they belong to another religion.Posted by John on August 31, 2007 9:23 AMReport this comment
I'm sure if one were to ask a hindu priest if yoga is a "non-religious activity" then he would laugh. The Church is absolutely right to ban this activity from its premises. And just to correct two issues from above.... 1. Christians "turn the other cheek" when they are being persecuted, not when false religion seeks a toe-hold in the church 2. "What happened to tolerance ?" - we don't tolerate sin or error, we challenge it, as it messes people's lives up Well done Rev Jones & Farrar !Posted by Neil Turner on August 31, 2007 9:01 AMReport this comment
Well done to Simon Farrar and Tim Jones I agree with the stand you are taking Yoga is a deception and Christians can have no part in it. Posted by Kath Bowden on August 31, 2007 8:36 AMReport this comment
Silver Street Baptist Church and St James's Church of England Church are certainly turning the other cheek aren't they? Posted by John Clark on August 31, 2007 8:32 AMReport this comment
all religion itself is a sham! And, whatever happened to tolerance? Posted by Ken Clark on August 31, 2007 8:09 AMReport this comment
Nothing new here. There have been stories in the press about churches not allowing their premises to be used for yoga for precisely this reason for as long as I can remember. It has been happening pretty regularly for at least 20 years (and probably longer) - and yet one would get the impression that it was a new thing from reading this article.Posted by John Mann on August 31, 2007 8:06 AMReport this comment
It is refreshing to see Christians able to articulate their faith in Jesus - nothing short of breathtakingly surprising to see a British newspaper willing to report on that faith without mocking and slandering it. Whatever one's beliefs, it is a relief to know that freedom of speech is not entirely dead in this country.Posted by Peter Sanlon on August 31, 2007 7:36 AMReport this comment
Last Updated: 1:57am BST 01/09/2007
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Have your say: Is yoga un-Christian?
A yoga group for toddlers has been banned from two church halls by ministers who branded it a "sham" and "un-Christian".
Louise Woodcock, 41, the group's teacher, was told that the ancient Hindu and Buddhist meditation method "impinges" on the spiritual agenda of the churches.
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Yesterday, Miss Woodcock, who has been turned away from Silver Street Baptist Church and St James's Church of England church in Taunton, Somerset, said the claims were "ridiculous" because her classes simply involve music and movement.
"I couldn't believe it when they suddenly said I couldn't have the hall any more because yoga is against their Christian ethos," she said. "It's crazy because we're talking about kids pretending to be animals and doing exercise routines to rhymes - it's really sweet.
"There is nothing that could damage their minds in any shape or form. The Church have completely misunderstood it and I think they are being narrow-minded."
Yoga originates from Hindu meditation techniques to achieve control of the body and mind, but in modern times it is used as a type of exercise.
Miss Woodcock, who has been teaching for 20 years, added: "I explained to the Church that my yoga is a completely non-religious activity. There is no dogma involved."
She was originally given permission to use the Baptist Church hall for a children's activity group, but the minister, the Rev Simon Farrar, withdrew his consent after discovering it was for yoga. Days later St James's barred her for the same reason. Rev Farrar yesterday defended his decision. "We are a Christian organisation and when we let rooms to people we want them to understand that they must be fully in line with our Christian ethos.
"Clearly yoga impinges on the spiritual life of people in a way which we as Christians don't believe is the same as our ethos. If it was just a group of children singing nursery rhymes, there wouldn't be a problem. But, she's called it yoga and therefore there is a dividing line we're not prepared to cross."
Rev Tim Jones, the vicar of St James's, said: "Any alternative philosophies or beliefs are offering a sham - and at St James's church we want people to have the real thing.
"Yoga has its roots in Hinduism, and attempts to use exercises and relaxation techniques to put a person into a calm frame of mind - in touch with some kind of impersonal spiritual reality.
"The philosophy of yoga cannot be separated from the practice of it, and any teacher of yoga (even to toddlers) must subscribe to the philosophy.
"As Christians we believe that this philosophy is false and not something we wish to encourage. Yoga is encouraging people to think that there is a way to wholeness of body and mind through human techniques - whereas the only true way to wholeness is by faith in God through Jesus Christ."
Miss Woodcock has moved her classes to a nearby village hall.
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Comments
This story demonstrates clearly why most of us have no time for religion. It never ceases to amaze me that religious people are so intolerant; I'm sure I read somewhere that you are supposed to love one another .... or does that mean just people who believe in your particular fairy tale?Posted by Chris R on September 1, 2007 2:54 PMReport this comment
It seems that all religions have their tunnel vision fundalmentalists. These Taunton clerics have already been referred to the work of Father Bede Griffiths. They might also read that most famous Christian work "The Cloud of Unknowing" and follow that up with some of the writings of Saint Theresa of Avila. Of course, none of these authors were Baptist or C of E.Posted by Martyn on September 1, 2007 11:41 AMReport this comment
This is an excellent decision - the reasons that the churches have given are clear and true.Posted by R Lock on September 1, 2007 11:35 AMReport this comment
Yoga is a Hindu practice; there is no doubt about it. People who try to say otherwise are only trying to appear PC or more acceptable to non- Hindus. The core philosophy of yoga is Hindu philosophy and its philosophy cannot be separated from its practice. Therefore, Priests banning it from churches are justified in principle. Christianity doesn’t endorse spiritual philosophy of Hinduism and Yoga so why should they allow it in their churches? Hinduism has never tried to force its way into any person or society; people follow it by their own choice and discovery of its amazing spiritual and enlightening knowledge. Yogis should find some other place and keep doing what they do in true non-conflicting and loving spirit of Hinduism. Posted by Shiv Som on September 1, 2007 11:08 AMReport this comment
Yoga is based on Hindu culture. That aspect of Yoga which is akin to exercises is called Hatha Yoga. The question is, can this be taught divorced from its background? That is, can Hatha Yoga be taught purely as an exercise form without any reference to Hinduism? Certainly, when we discard even the names of the various postures which are in Sanskrit. Then Hatha Yoga would be as non-Hindu as exercises for, say, a ballet dancer. It is understandable that Churches are afraid that non Christian influences would dilute the Christian atmosphere. Instead of wholesale rejection of Yoga, they would have been wiser if they pondered over ways of 'Christianizing' yoga, at least those sought to be taught in Churches. This way they can benefit from yoga while ensuring they are not culturally invaded. Incidentally, this syncretism is the secret of Hinduism’s marathon survival. Unless Christianity pick’s up this clue, it might stagnate in dogmatism. Posted by K.Venugopal on September 1, 2007 9:41 AMReport this comment
Teachers of Yoga always begin by teaching "harmless" physical exercises. These lead imperceptibly to the subsequent acceptance of the underlying philosophy, which is fundamentally opposed to the idea of Jesus Christ being "the only begotten Son of God". "Yoga" and "Jesus Christ, Son of God, Saviour" are mutually exclusive. Thanks are due to the Ministers concerned for their prompt action. Other churches please copy ! Posted by Dr Roger Clark on September 1, 2007 8:09 AMReport this comment
A Christian is someone who not only believes in God but they make Jesus Christ their LORD and Savior. There is a big difference. We must stand up for anything that could lead another down a path of destruction and that is exactly where Yoga could lead someone. What if those little children grow up thinking Yoga is harmless and than they happen to go to a Yoga class where the teacher does tell them to connect with a god, not the true God? That is why it is a fine line. Satan comes as an angel of light. He loves to have us think something is harmless and then he goes in for the kill. He seeks to destroy. So I applaud the churches for taking this stand! May God get all the glory.Praise His name oh my soul!Posted by lovejesus on September 1, 2007 6:19 AMReport this comment
Having looked at all the other post I would like to add that loving one's neighbour involves pointing out where a mistake or worse is being made. Many seem to think that Hinduism is older than christianity yet the Bible says that In the beginning God created and that In the beginning was the Word and the Word was made flesh and came to dwell among us, that is Jesus was is and always will be the first and the last.To base one's life on anything else is false unless this truth is itself false. The evidence of Jesus divinity and the greatness of His life and teachings is more than sufficient to suggest that nothing and no-one else comes close to being worthy of human worship. Follow Jesus and Glory awaits. May the Holy Spirit lead us all into the truth and away from ancient and modern philosophies that have the appearance of wisdom but lead us ultimately away from eternity and the Glory of the knowledge of God. Posted by Robin on September 1, 2007 2:03 AMReport this comment
Good for the ministers who have explained why following Jesus is the most important reason for not allowing children to be led into a false faith in a christian building. What did the yoga teacher expect? If she wants to practise hinduistic singing and exercises she is free to do so but why inflict it on children and expect another faith to provide the premises? Satan masquerades as an angel of light and this lady needs to understand that her seemingly innocent activity is leading others away from the truth revealed by God's only begotten son Jesus Christ.Posted by Robin Ware on September 1, 2007 1:39 AMReport this comment
As a Christian I cansider the ban arrogant, outrageous and petty minded. Grow up.Posted by g guard on August 31, 2007 11:17 PMReport this comment
As a Canadian I wonder why people are so upset about children using a church hall for exercise .As I read the ' Telegraph ' each day I clearly see that everyone in England needs to worry more about youth violence , alcohol / drug abuse , spousal abuse and a lack of meaningful education in primary schools .When I read the e-mails already posted the poor educational standards are glaringly apparent. G.L.Bell AlbertaPosted by Gillian Bell on August 31, 2007 10:50 PMReport this comment
A subtle mind would note the common theme running through many posts here. Choose Jesus over Yoga (or words to that effect)... reflecting the state of mind "either you are with us or against us". The fundamental difference between monolithic religions (mutually exclusive paths to God) and Hinduisam (several paths) could not be more stark. It requires to do some yoga to realise that Jesus and Yoga can co-exist...possibly he practiced it since yoga pre-dated him by a pole.Posted by Yashkul on August 31, 2007 10:41 PMReport this comment
In a competing world of religions, CEO of the church did the right thing to keep off the competitor by a pole. People can practise lower form of yoga (physical exercises) but the higher spiritual forms of yoga would take it closer to Hinduism... That is the fear of the CEO. Yoga has existed since time...physically and spritually beneficial as it is. His fear is justified. If investors lose trust in a CEO, they will go to the other corporate. It's upto people to decide for their profit (or loss).Posted by Yashkul on August 31, 2007 10:16 PMReport this comment
2 Corinthians 6:14 [ Do Not Be Yoked With Unbelievers ] "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?" As anyone can see from this verse the Christian belief of being separate from the world (darkness) is a requirement! Otherwise, you are playing a game with the devil. Guess who will win when you play by his rules? Posted by Barry on August 31, 2007 9:54 PMReport this comment
To learn more about Yoga Visit this site: Hindu Wisdom link Posted by Sue on August 31, 2007 9:54 PMReport this comment
Relax people, my 2 year old daughter is one of those that attend Louises classes. TWO year old... She is not seeking enlightenment through yoga, she is enjoying the fact that her mum takes her somewhere she can play with other children, sing and dance and pretend to be a mountain! This does not need to be an argument between religions, its only children, dancing and having fun.Posted by Mark Bradshaw on August 31, 2007 8:56 PMReport this comment
I suggest that Tim Jones and Simon Farrar might read River of Compassion by Bede Griffiths. I have been a yoga teacher for 20 years and am a regular C of E churchgoer. My understanding of Christian spirituality has been deeply enriched by studying yoga. Posted by Jenny Golland on August 31, 2007 8:38 PMReport this comment
Yoga means union. Union of the individual self with God. It is incorrect to say Yoga came from Hinduism, it is the other way around. Hinduism came from Yoga as did Chritianity. Which Christian would deny Lord Jesus is not one with God? Therefore Lord Jesus is Yoga. Doing postures is what most people think is Yoga but that is like saying doing the sign of the cross is Christianity - there is a whole lot more to it than that. Yoga practices include praying, meditating, following ethical principles, working for others, positive thinking, living in harmony with oneself and the environment. Should Christians stop doing these too? One can practice all of these in the name of that One your heart adores. Whether that is Lord Jesus, Lord Krishna, or Lord Buddha. Posted by Mark Johnson on August 31, 2007 8:21 PMReport this comment
Yoga unchristian beacause of its origins? Then what about drama, a direct descendent of the religious rites of the ancient greeks? Are christians barred from watching nativity plays? As someone who regularly practises yoga (and an atheist, as it happens) I can assure you that it is no more unchristian than playing tennis or drinking a cup of tea. Its also extremely good for you - regardless of what you believe. Posted by Andrew Mortimer on August 31, 2007 7:43 PMReport this comment
Some years ago I managed the Church Hall of a North London C-of-E Church of which I was churchwarden. The question of eastern religious and martial-arts groups did indeed crop up - and with good reason - since these groups were the majority of those who wished to hire our hall. Frankly I had no qualms about letting our hall to such people, nor did most of our parishioners. We regarded the hall as a 'secular trading arm' and, provided nothing illegal or irinsically 'anti'-Christian took place, we saw no problem. Indeed we once had a moslem post-baptism party for our community policeman's family. We believe that the multiculturalist approach that we took was a major factor in our church gaining a sizeable repair grant from the Heritage Fund.Posted by Stuart Hobday on August 31, 2007 7:34 PMReport this comment
It seems that whatever path Christians choose is wrong. If they go along with other religions, show tolerance, whatever that is. They are declared weak and sneered at particularily in the media. if they take a stand against what is after all a practice rooted in Hinduism, they are viewed as bigots. Well done RevPosted by Cynthia Sheward on August 31, 2007 7:31 PMReport this comment
I would like to know what the 'church' is afraid of. If more people were confident in their own spirituality through practices such as the teachings of yoga, society would be a happier and healthier place. I guess my yoga class should keep an eye out for crusading Christians, although I think we have nothing to worry about as they will probably be too busy fighting each other.Posted by James Fisher on August 31, 2007 7:07 PMReport this comment
Gerard - surely you havent actually taken Dawkin's book seriously? Dont you realise it simply repeats what poor old Jacque Monod was saying yonks ago? tired old stuff which wasnt remotely rational then and isnt now. In my view it is irrational to believe that there is no self/soul but rather that 'we', our thoughts, dreams & feelings are the random product of random electro-chemical interreactions caused by random external stimuli.Posted by Simon Hocking on August 31, 2007 7:03 PMReport this comment
Absolutely right Rev Jones, and all power to you. Theologically correct, 100% right. Yoga is not Christianity, and I admire your strength of character and your clear and precise denunciation of un-Christian practices. Ignore the doubters - I too believe it's your perogative and right to support the Christian faith and I too applaude the chance to say so in the (essentially anti-God) press. Tolerance? A new-age left-wing term.It means let me sin as much as I choose. Stay with the Truth, Tim. Well done. Posted by Murray K Steward on August 31, 2007 6:55 PMReport this comment
Religion of whatever shade is irrational, has no basis in objective reality and cannot be tested. Christian objection to yoga is just one superstition versus another. However, whomsoever owns the building concerned should have every right to determine its use, whether or not their reasons for doing so stand up to rational analysis.Posted by Gerard Carroll on August 31, 2007 6:02 PMReport this comment
I suppose tolerance means we should accept murder of the soul. Many murderers in prison would call us intolerant.Thankfully many Christians are intolerant of both. Posted by Karen on August 31, 2007 5:26 PMReport this comment
Congratulations to Rev Tim Jones, the vicar who said: "Any alternative philosophies or beliefs are offering a sham - and at St James's church we want people to have the real thing. Yoga has its roots in Hinduism, and attempts to use exercises and relaxation techniques to put a person into a calm frame of mind - in touch with some kind of impersonal spiritual reality. The philosophy of yoga cannot be separated from the practice of it, and any teacher of yoga (even to toddlers) must subscribe to the philosophy.” There seems to be an appalling ignorance regarding Yoga which is a Hindu exercising practice to allow the devotee to believe in many gods. One if its aims is to achieve peaceful meditation without recourse to our Creator God and to contact the dormant spirit snake said to reside at the base of all our spines and bring it alive. I have seen a personal demonstration of this Kundalini spirit snake semi materialised which at the time petrified me as I knew I was in danger of losing my eternal soul. Some 40 years ago I was in a branch of the Great White Brotherhood which claims to heal the sick by spiritual healing. I had twice sought this healing for my dying father after doctors had given up on him when after removing one lung he had two more growing at the top and bottom of his remaining lung. Following two apparently miraculous GWB spirit healings he lived for another 7 years. I became a trainee healer and when I was invited to a weeks retreat at the GWB headquarters for a test for Inner Brotherhood I thought I had realised my dream of serving God by healing the sick. In a private interview with the Founder the sweet kindly old lady became angry when I said we could help the Christian Church. “They will use their power and destroy us she cried.” We were in a brightly lit room. She was sat back relaxed on a couch whilst I was seated on a wooden chair opposite her. Whilst I was trying to puzzle out what ‘power’ the Christian Church had, I found that her head and shoulders had disappeared into grey mist and projecting from it was a humanised head with glowing eyes of hatred at the end of a elongated neck or snake’s body of the same grey mist. The fangs of this creature were aimed at my forehead. I was paralysed with fear as my soul told me that this was personified evil. I desperation I mentally cried out to the God I had forsaken when CoE bishops and vicars started to broadcast their disbelief in what they taught to others. Blessed am I that God and/or His Angels came and drove the evil one back inside the mediums body. Eventually the mist faded and her normal self re-appeared. I don’t know how I controlled myself as I knew that she must not know what I had seen. I spent a sleepless night wondering how I could last out the week. How could such lovely souls freely dispensing their healing gifts be of the Devil? Were the founders deceived or did they know? They had sought power to heal but was this God’s revenge for seeking a gift that was only His to give? At the time I knew nothing about Yoga and had never heard of the spirit snake but amazingly proof of my experience came with the first lesson on the morning following. We were taught (I closed my mind to it) how by deep meditation and chanting the dormant Kundalini snake could be brought alive and with training it would crawl up the spine to the head. There it would develop wings to enable the soul to fly to Heaven. So we were taught. But I had seen how it would, when the conditions were right, semi-materialise itself and strike out of the human body to damn a soul for eternity before sinking back into its lair. The Rev Simon Farrar & Rev Tim Jones may have started a growing movement of removing from Christian churches what is not of God. Yoga is also available on the NHS so perhaps it’s dangers could be removed from there also? My full story is available at: link Keith Posted by Keith Shelton on August 31, 2007 3:45 PMReport this comment
To Mrs Snowden, shut up, you fool. You strike me as too keen to advocate killing in the name, and the pernicious ignorance surrounding sex and its education in this country, not to mention the world. Shame on you.Posted by Bovine Response on August 31, 2007 3:41 PMReport this comment
Praise God! 2 churches that have a knowledge of right and wrong in the eyes of Jesus. Stand Up! Stand Up! for Jesus, Christians! There are too many deceptions in health and fitness these days and so it would be wise to check out the origin of something before you subject your spirit to it. We are to be salt and light to the world and bring into the light that which is hidden in darkness.Posted by Mrs Snowden on August 31, 2007 3:29 PMReport this comment
I am concerned that there are so many Christians agreeing with this stance. I am proud of Britains' largely secular and irreligious culture and do NOT see how Christians can witter on about how tolerant and peace-loving they are and then get their knickers in a twist over a bit of yoga. Is there faith so shaky that it needs propping up like this? I think so...Posted by Cheryl, Swindon on August 31, 2007 2:27 PMReport this comment
Excellent post Neil Turner!! 'Tolerance' today is the catch phrase people like to use to try and make the Church submit to what the world/satan wants. As you stated, we don't tolerate sin or error, we are merely commanded by the Lord to challenge people and point out the error of their ways (and will be likely persecuted for it!).Posted by Chris Zimmerman on August 31, 2007 2:11 PMReport this comment
Full marks to Revd's Farrer and Jones for exactly the reasons reported. It's time we reminded society that religious plurality is not helpful to anyone. Yes Christians rightly and properly seek tolerance but not to condone erroneous teaching. Posted by Revd Peter Burns on August 31, 2007 1:58 PMReport this comment
I can see no good reason why a priest should not be able to rent his church hall to whomsoever he chooses. The fact that they look absolutely daft is neither here nor there. I bet they open their church halls for the entirely secular and meaningless activity known as voting though.Posted by A. G. Nostic on August 31, 2007 1:42 PMReport this comment
I believe this to be a spiritually wise decision. Offering a fine branch of yoga can lead to a deeper interest in this practise. There is much more to this yoga practise than meets the eye. It says in the Bible a little yeast will work its way through the whole dough. Sadly in our world in many different ways this has happened and we can see the result. ( signs of the times ) Friends we have a Creator who loves us and revealed Himself through the person of Jesus Christ. Its time for change, don't choose yoga, choose Jesus.Posted by Kevin on August 31, 2007 12:53 PMReport this comment
Yes it is unchristian. People who scoff and say 'oh it's fine and don't be so fuddy duddy' are ignorant of where yoga comes from, and, ultimately, where it aims to lead people to. If it's a 'music and movement' class that is wanted, simply have it. Do not, however, stage yoga in a Christian church - no matter how early stage or seemingly innocent. Well done & fair play to the Taunton ministers!Posted by Adrian Russell on August 31, 2007 12:40 PMReport this comment
Yoga, as with many Eastern and alternative therapies and practices, cultivates the notion that their is a latent energy/source within the 'self' which can energise and potentially liberate us. Essentially, healing, release and meaning are to be discovered through practices which focus on nurturing the subjective life. Christianity, on the other hand, is fundamentally concerned with looking outside the 'self' for meaning and liberation - to Jesus. The Christian looks outwards (to God), the person involved in 'self-spirituality' looks inwards (to self). They are therefore diametrically opposed. Also, the meaning of the word 'yoga' is union. Crudely put, this union is the 'union with all' that monistic religions see as possible - the dissolution of the distinction between 'self' and 'other' - "'Thou' art 'thou'". Christianity is monotheistic, there is to always be the distinction between God and humans. God is holy and humans are by nature sinful. Only in Christ can this chasm be traversed and even then the distinction remains for humans are created and are of a different matter to the divine. Whether or not a bunch of toddlers and children are buying into yoga or not is a different matter - I suspect not. Nevertheless, the lady is wrong to say that the Church leaders are narrowminded for she is the one who has little understanding of the roots of her subject and its innate theological and practical disparities with the Christian faith. Posted by Giles Beck on August 31, 2007 12:27 PMReport this comment
yes! the churches are quite right to say that. i dare say someone will say how 'narrow minded' but Telegraph is to be congratulated on reporting the minsiters objections clearly.Posted by neila on August 31, 2007 12:23 PMReport this comment
Eh...What the hecks. Hinduism is being called false by some here but yet it is the oldest known existing religion...older that Judaism by about 500 years...and that was where christians borrowed their beliefs and their Christ. To put it into perspective Christianity is 2000 years old while Hinduism at its youngest is 5500 years and its oldest greater that 7000 years old. An athiest Posted by Marc Charest on August 31, 2007 12:20 PMReport this comment
I am a fitness instructor and a Christian. Yoga may have it's roots in paganism but today it's only exercise for stress relief. It basically boils down to one word: WORSHIP! We are NOT worshipping anything. Pretending to be animals is not worshipping them. True Christianity does NOT force. You can also use Yoga to worship God and Jesus Christ. Posted by Delilah on August 31, 2007 12:05 PMReport this comment
Xianity a tolerant religion?! (John, 0923 hrs.) Obviously John has missed the excesses of Xianity over the past one and a half millennia, which make fanatical Islam look like a kindergarten tantrum. Heck, if this had happened a century or two ago, Ms woodcock would've been burned at stake!Posted by Michael Steiner on August 31, 2007 12:01 PMReport this comment
If Ms Woodcock paid the church good money to hire the hall upfront, then I would demand a refund if I was her. This just goes to show that most of the major faiths are intolerant of other people’s beliefs (or lack of). But I'm glad that Ms Woodcock has been able to find alternative accommodation. Posted by Richard Bush on August 31, 2007 11:43 AMReport this comment
Its not the point of this artcile of course but, to respond to Mr Jarmel, I am not certain any dictionary is a very helpful arbiter of what constitues a religion/belief system. In any event atheism is the strong and indeed blind faith that there is no God, despite the fact that no human can of course prove this. In this sense, atheism involves as least as much faith as any other world-view and so the term 'religion' appears to be equally applicable to that belief.Posted by Simon Hocking on August 31, 2007 11:41 AMReport this comment
Well for starters, Yoga is not in christianity. Therefore the idea that it is 'unchristian' because it goes against (the myth of) christianity is accepted. Miss Woodcock should not be upset by the fundie-mentality esp when she is going to a church with something that the church cannot accept based on THEIR beliefs. She ought to have known that yoga wouldn't be accepted! She is better off at the village hall where her taxes have helped pay for. Likewise, for the churches, when they are afraid that their freedom of speech is being trifled with, obviously they will reject anything that doesn't conform to their ideal, without breaking the law on discrimination. So, as an atheist or anyone who pays their taxes (religion is exempt btw), better off using public halls than private or religious halls!Posted by Atheist joe on August 31, 2007 11:26 AMReport this comment
The idea of teaching children to empty their monds and pretend to be animals is certainly a form of false religion. Christianity does not force itself on other religions but they have no place in any church. Please read Jesus' words Matthew 12:43-45Posted by john cochrane on August 31, 2007 11:08 AMReport this comment
It would appear that the Taliban are alive and well and living in Taunton. How far is the distance from banning Yoga to burning books or dunking witches? You may feel this is an exaggeration, especially in a country that a BBC survey found to be one of the most irreligious countries in the world(thank goodness). However, as Sam Harris has pointed out in 'The End of Faith' it's the mild mannered vicars, with their irrational beliefs, that you have to watch out for. Seems to me they could do with a few yoga lessons themselves, along with some of the previous correspondents. It might help to open their small minds. Posted by Philip Palmer on August 31, 2007 11:03 AMReport this comment
She's calling it yoga, and Yoga has a spritual dimension that is probably not compatible with Christianity. It maybe, in fact, that it isn't truly yoga that this woman is doing, but the ministers in question have only got her word to go on, and so they should ban it.Posted by Greg Lorriman on August 31, 2007 11:00 AMReport this comment
If grown men, especially vicars, are stopping children having a little exercise in this day of "couch potatoes", is it not time for religion to be abolished?Posted by Kathleen Clark on August 31, 2007 10:59 AMReport this comment
As a practicing Christan I am appalled at Ms. Woodcock's treatment by Reverend Jones. His extremely narrow interpretation of theology makes us all a laughing stock. God help the people of Taunton if this is the dogma they have to contend with.Posted by Steph Falkingham-Blackwell on August 31, 2007 10:58 AMReport this comment
I used to be a Kung Fu instructor, I ran my own school for 2 years before I got saved. God showed me that ANY involvement in these kinds of things is simply opening the doorway of my heart to things which it should be closed to. This Church is absolutely right in its stance and should be applauded for doing so, that yoga instructor doesnt know what she is talking about if she says its "non-religious", the act of imitating animals & their movements for this purpose is in itself religious and an act of worship. To the people that think this is unbecoming of Christians they need to catch a wake up call, Christians give their lives to God and WILL NOT TOLERATE THIS. Romans 6:1-2 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?" Your Faithfully, JohnVZPosted by JohnVZ on August 31, 2007 10:30 AMReport this comment
From what the trainer is describing, it's not yoga. True yoga would be against the churches ethos - it would be like going into a Hindu temple and singing Christian hymns. What she's doing is, as she says, "music and movement" - call it what it really is instead of trying to tap into the "fashionable" new-age/eastern religion movement and there wouldn't be a problem.Posted by Sparkey on August 31, 2007 10:27 AMReport this comment
I believe that yoga is basically unchristian, as its origins are in Hinduism. you cannot be true to yoga and separate the physical side of it from the quasi-spiritual which is the harmful element. Physical exercises are of course beneficial, but to think that ultimate wholeness and inner harmony can be achieved by them is based on a falsehood. True wholeness is found in Jesus alone.Posted by Philip Lawson Johnston on August 31, 2007 10:01 AMReport this comment
Those who would describe atheism as a religion should perhaps consult a dictionary. A religion requires belief in a supernatural creator and, almost always, some form of worship of said being. It aims to tell us something about the creation of the universe. It is not simply a strongly held belief. In any case, Atheism is not a belief system and certainly doesn't aim to tell us about the creation of the universe. It is the absence of belief and simply says that there is no evidence to suggest that the universe was created by a supernatural being with magical powers. Any true atheist - myself included - would happily change their minds about the existence of a supernatural creator with magical powers the very second that any evidence were provided to prove the existence of such a creature. Given the linguistic difficulties of theists, perhaps reasonable people (that is, people whose beliefs about the world are governed by reason rather than faith) should take the advice of philosopher AC Grayling who argues that the term atheism should be abandoned because it gives too much ground to the idea of a god in the first place. Posted by Jake Jarmel on August 31, 2007 10:00 AMReport this comment
Churches always claim their halls are there for the good of the community when they're seeking public funding, but bar there use by anyone of whom they disapprove. They can't have it both ways. Posted by Chris Newell on August 31, 2007 9:42 AMReport this comment
Yoga is about movement and doesn't actually require anyone to subscribe to any particular philosophy in order to practice it: you just have to relax and move limbs. Hinduism DOES teach tolerance as in their view there are many paths to god, with none being better than the other - tolerance apparently something which the Christians in Taunton appear to lack.Posted by Paul on August 31, 2007 9:35 AMReport this comment
"All religion is a sham...and what happened to tolerance?" - what a classic quote! - presumably Mr Clark includes in his no doubt deeply considered outburst, the religion of atheism. I cant see any problem with what the churches are doing. It is entirely their prerogative to decline any activity which they feel does not accord with their beliefs. Yoga has its roots in Eastern mysticism that is directly opposed to Christian faith. With this in mind, the decision is entirely logical.Posted by Simon Hocking on August 31, 2007 9:30 AMReport this comment
Aaaaaargh. I just get so angry when I read this sort of thing. I thought christianity was one of the more tolerant religions. Obviously not. Religion causes so many divisions and conflicts in this world and yet they all seem to preach "love thy neighbour" unless of course they belong to another religion.Posted by John on August 31, 2007 9:23 AMReport this comment
I'm sure if one were to ask a hindu priest if yoga is a "non-religious activity" then he would laugh. The Church is absolutely right to ban this activity from its premises. And just to correct two issues from above.... 1. Christians "turn the other cheek" when they are being persecuted, not when false religion seeks a toe-hold in the church 2. "What happened to tolerance ?" - we don't tolerate sin or error, we challenge it, as it messes people's lives up Well done Rev Jones & Farrar !Posted by Neil Turner on August 31, 2007 9:01 AMReport this comment
Well done to Simon Farrar and Tim Jones I agree with the stand you are taking Yoga is a deception and Christians can have no part in it. Posted by Kath Bowden on August 31, 2007 8:36 AMReport this comment
Silver Street Baptist Church and St James's Church of England Church are certainly turning the other cheek aren't they? Posted by John Clark on August 31, 2007 8:32 AMReport this comment
all religion itself is a sham! And, whatever happened to tolerance? Posted by Ken Clark on August 31, 2007 8:09 AMReport this comment
Nothing new here. There have been stories in the press about churches not allowing their premises to be used for yoga for precisely this reason for as long as I can remember. It has been happening pretty regularly for at least 20 years (and probably longer) - and yet one would get the impression that it was a new thing from reading this article.Posted by John Mann on August 31, 2007 8:06 AMReport this comment
It is refreshing to see Christians able to articulate their faith in Jesus - nothing short of breathtakingly surprising to see a British newspaper willing to report on that faith without mocking and slandering it. Whatever one's beliefs, it is a relief to know that freedom of speech is not entirely dead in this country.Posted by Peter Sanlon on August 31, 2007 7:36 AMReport this comment
